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Hawaii is known for pineapples, leis, and tropical vacations, but did you know that they also have livestock ranches?
Taylor Kellerman is the Director of Diversified Agriculture and Land Stewardship for Kualoa Ranch on Oahu – which is the most populated of the Hawaiian Islands. Kualoa Ranch takes advantage of being in a travel hot spot by offering go-to tourist attractions like ziplining, movie set tours, horseback riding, and more.
While experiencing the ranch, guests are educated on Kualoa’s farming activities and Hawaiian culture in hopes of giving visitors new respect for Hawaii as more than just a place to take a vacation.
Taylor was born and raised on Oahu, educated at the University of Hawaii at Hilo, and spent most of his career in Hawaiian agriculture. As Director of Ag for Kualoa, Taylor oversees the livestock, aquaculture, farming, and conservation programs.
When he is not busy at the ranch, Taylor is a committee chair for the Hawaii Cattlemans’ Council and serves as the board president for the Agriculture Leadership Foundation of Hawaii and the Oahu Resource Development Council.
Taylor’s pride and commitment to Hawaiian agriculture shines through in this interview. Listen in as we chat about:
- The history of Kualoa Ranch
- Invasive species and pathogens on Oahu
- The effect of Big Ag on Hawaii
- Kualoa’s 3 pillar system of land stewardship, economic stability, and ecotourism
- Incentives to support local food production
- How COVID exposed vulnerabilities in our food system – especially in Hawaii
- How Kualoa finds and retains staff in this tough labor market
- The challenge of competing in a global food system while living in the most expensive state in the US
Resources:
Sustainable Dish Episode 203: Maui Nui Venison
Sustainable Dish Episode 214: Charlie Arnott
Connect with Taylor:
Website: Kualoa Ranch
Instagram: @kualoagrown
Episode Credits:
Thank you to all who’ve made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And, of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners.
If you’re ready to take your support for a nutritious, sustainable, and equitable food system to the next level, join my Global Food Justice Alliance community on Patreon. You will have access to ad-free podcasts, exclusive videos, a discussion community, and much more. Go to sustainabledish.com/join to support my work.
Quotes:
“I think that we got so used to [the food system] working correctly. And then that interruption, I think, was a great opportunity for people to – it’s kind of like you don’t know your mailman until you stop getting your mail.” – Taylor Kellerman
“I do think that we need to maintain and remember exactly where we were at in those dire moments, not because we want to dwell on the negative past, but because it helps drive the positive change.” – Taylor Kellerman
“I feel like there is an unfair disregard for the same type of vegetative remediation in carbon sequestration that grass does as opposed to trees because grass itself is a carbon sequester. Grass itself does exactly the same thing the trees do.” – Taylor Kellerman
“Not only can grasslands sequester carbon, but they also need to be cut, and the best way to cut them is to have it chewed by an animal and then biologically broken down and excreted out the other end while turning that food we can’t eat, on land we can’t farm into the most nutritious food for people.” – Diana Rodgers, RD
Transcript:
Diana Rodgers, RD
Welcome to the Sustainable Dish Podcast. I’m Diana Rodgers, a real food registered dietitian, author, and sustainability advocate. I co-host this podcast with James Connelly, who was a producer on my film Sacred Cow. I also founded the Global Food Justice Alliance, an initiative advocating for the inclusion of animal source foods like meat, dairy, and eggs for a more nutritious, sustainable, and equitable worldwide food system. You can check it out and join me at global food justice.org. Thanks again for listening. And now on to our show.
(Patreon Ad) Diana Rodgers, RD
Ready to take your support for a nutritious, sustainable, and equitable food system to the next level? Join my Global Food Justice Alliance community on Patreon and have access to ad-free podcasts, exclusive videos, and a discussion community, plus so much more. Go to sustainable dish.com/join to support my work, and thank you.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. Today I have with me Taylor Kellerman, who is at – I’m going to try to pronounce this right – Kualoa Ranch. Is that correct?
Taylor Kellerman
Yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD
All right. This is a really cool place that I learned about from actually my podcast editor, who is based in Hawaii. She’s an RD candidate and told me all about you and kept pestering me to make sure that I had you on the podcast. So but once I went to the website and saw how cool this place was, I knew that I wanted to feature you guys on the podcast. So this is a 4000 acre ranch in Hawaii. I’m going to have Taylor kind of describe the whole thing because I’m sure I’m going to screw it up. But it is just the coolest place. So welcome, Taylor.
Taylor Kellerman
Yeah, thank you very much for having me. Yeah. Kualoa Ranch. Boy, I gotta say, you know, it’s probably I know, I’m biased, but probably one of the more special places in the state, for sure on the island. I always tell people I’m born and raised seven miles down the road. So although I’m biased, I promise you can kind of take my word for it. But the ranch itself is, like you said it’s just under 4000 acres. It encompasses three separate valleys: the valley of Hakipu’u, the valley of Ka’a’awa, and the valley of Kualoa. We’re located on the windward side of the island, which means that we are in the rain shed location, so we get quite a bit of moisture. So you can only imagine it’s got that very tropical feel. The ranch itself is over 150 years old. And it’s privately owned and agriculturally based both in history as well as in footprint. And about 30 years ago, the owners kind of diversified their economy to include things like agri-tourism, ecotourism, a lot of movies are shot here. And we also have a lot of event space. But I think the most unique portion of the ranch is that while those last few items are kind of our economic drivers, the heart and soul of the ranch and the primary footprint is still completely dedicated to natural resource conservation and local food production.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And so not too long ago, I had the Maui Nui venison guys on the podcast, and we talked like about wild deer. Do you guys I’m just curious, do you… is there a wild deer issue where you are?
Taylor Kellerman
We do not have deer on this island. The islands are kind of unique, and there can be different invasive species in different islands. Oahu was lucky that we don’t have any deer on this site. But we do have a lot of feral pigs on this site, but really doesn’t impact us except in some of the rain shed management we’re trying to do, particularly around native species restoration. So we do have the control program there. And then we also raise local pork. So we always try to keep the wild ones away from the domestic ones just from biosecurity.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yes. Does that… I was just going to ask you that. Are there diseases that the wild pigs have that could be transmitted to the domestic pigs you have?
Taylor Kellerman
There is and we have a unique way of raising pigs. It’s called the deep litter system where it doesn’t involve any sort of concrete pan or washdown or lagoon like a lot of traditional piggeries use. Our piggery is what is essentially referred to as a living floor where you have different layers of logs and mulch, and the mulch has indigenous microorganism inoculation. So think of it as like a giant mushroom that consumes the waste of the pig and food over time. And it allows for a very kind of holistic management with not a lot of smell associated with it. But because we raised all of our pigs in that rural environment, we actually put in a double fence to keep out any sort of feral pigs because anytime you have an exchange of even say breath or interaction, you can cross over and so from a biosecurity measure, keeping that double fence it really kind of helps us in that sense.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, and I’m going to be doing a podcast with Charlie Arnott pretty soon about foot and mouth disease, which is making its way into Australia. Are there any other diseases that are impacting your livestock in any other way in Hawaii?
Taylor Kellerman
You know, really, I as far as disease goes, we are fairly lucky in the sense of, and I’m gonna knock on wood when I say this, our isolation does create a unique, it kind of creates to you creates a unique challenge, but also a unique opportunity. The challenge is that when you look at how species, particularly native species were evolved over time, a lot of the mechanisms they might have to defend themselves against pathogens, diseases, and things like that were not very robust. So when first contact came in, there was kind of a moment of attrition, you know, I think it’s kind of a low point in history in regards to the natural environment here. What’s been nice, though, is that because we are so isolated, if you have good management practices, you can really kind of isolate yourself, and have a really good knowledge of what’s currently being, you know, what’s on the board as far as what could be an issue. So as far as you know, swine diseases, we do not have anything that the mainland wouldn’t be impacted by. But one thing that we do have is an environment that’s very wet. And so particularly with cattle, we tend to have a little bit more of pathogens, more related to kind of the worm, liver fluke things like that. And so what we do is we try to maintain pasture management plans and agronomic practices that mitigate those organisms kind of creating a critical mass where it actually affects the health of them.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Right. And I didn’t mean to kind of like immediately dive down into this, like pathogen conversation. But one thing that I think a lot of people don’t realize is that good management and grazing, moving the animals frequently not only benefits soil health and gives the animals access to fresh, clean pasture, but it also minimizes transmission of different pathogens from the manure and other things. So it ends up making the animal healthier, not just from increased nutrition, but also from less, you know, it helps manage your microbiome better.
Taylor Kellerman
It does. And, you know, you brought up a really good point. And we’re in terms of animal health because, you know, we do animal agriculture, as well as plant agriculture. And while we raise, say, like species in a given area, in other words, we’re not doing a true kind of permaculture-type of theory, say, a singular ag center, an example of seven acres, we’ll have 10 different crops grown on it. And because of those intermingling species within a relatively small area, when you consider the larger footprint, you tend to have a high amount of biodiversity. And that does include things that can be pathogens. And so what I like to say is that you know, nature is the best agent for keeping things in check. And a lot of pathogens actually exist at all times. It’s only when they are found in, like we mentioned, in critical mass or levels above acceptable rates, that they become a problem. And so if you’re able to not only have the diversity, but like you said, keep transitioning your animals into new areas, and then collectively creating an animal health program where they themselves are able to maintain balance within their own bodies. We always talk about with plants, the best pesticide for a plant is a healthy plant, right? Because if you can create that balance, both internal and external, a lot of times that critical mass doesn’t have a chance to build up.
Diana Rodgers, RD
That’s great. So let’s zoom up just a little bit, big picture, and just give me an idea or give our listeners an idea of what’s going on all the different operations because and let’s start with the tourism piece because, as you mentioned, that is a big driver for income. It’s something that a lot of farmers could be taking advantage of better. It probably is intimidating to a lot of farmers. But you know, whether it’s a farm stays or tours or, you know, full on what you guys have done. I think it’s a really great way of supplementing income and keeping, you know, the farm going,
Taylor Kellerman
No, it’s a really good point and something that I try to be a champion of because particularly when you look at the state of affairs in the Hawaiian agriculture, you know, we were an agrarian state, but from a monoculture perspective, you know, in the last few centuries, sugar, pineapple being king, and mainly export ag, you know, and we did have quite a bit of small ag that supported the local population. But in the end, that was really being driven by these larger companies. As those enterprises became more profitable offshore, agriculture shrunk, tourism grew, and you know, it’s not anything I think somebody did intentionally, but over time that’s how it developed. And I think what, unfortunately, has happened is that, at least in this state, you know, the price of land, the price of labor, the fact that we have to ship everything in, the margins in pure agriculture became more and more difficult. And so what the folks that I am lucky to be associated with here, Kualoa Ranch, were able to do was take assets like the land and the beauty as well as, you know, important cultural history and things that guests are really inspired to be exposed to, and kind of create that as part of the economic engine. And what I tried to be really specific about and clear about is that I feel like people tend to look at agritourism, as, you know, you have your tourism, and then you have your agriculture and they’re a separate entity. What we like to look at it is we actually have comprehensive land management. And within that land management plan, food production is a key pillar, agri tourism and events help fund that larger key goal. And then because of the asset, or the land asset, being so large and encompassing such a significant area, environmentally, having a dedicated crew just towards natural resource management that is also funded by that economic driver creates this three pillars system of land stewardship, economic sustainability, using low impact and small footprint types of formats like ecotourism, and then local food production being kind of at the core of what the whole business stands for. So it’s kind of like looking at it as a more of a holistic viewpoint rather than a separate business viewpoint.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And are there any incentives to support food, local food production from a food security perspective to try to keep diverse amount of nutritious food produced on Hawaii? Like, do you? Is there any policies in place to help you with potential labor issues that I imagine you’ve face? Because as an island, I would think the more local food, the healthier it is?
Taylor Kellerman
No, and you’re asking the right question at the right time. Because you know, not to always go back to this subject. But what COVID was able to do, I think, was to shake the tree enough, where people all of a sudden looked at local agriculture as a requirement for future rather than a nice thing to like on Instagram. And I think, unfortunately, because our industry is more cottage because of the cost. And because of economics, we were kind of prior to COVID looked at as more of a novelty. And I think once… I have pictures of my local grocery store, completely bare, and I hold on to those pictures. And I love that saying, you know, don’t let a good crisis go to waste. I think people collectively kind of went, Oh, my gosh, this is real, you know, all it takes is three days of no boats or disruption like that we experienced, and this is something giant. And I think that has been a huge driving force in a recent onslaught of legislation and pushes from, I think, a lot of different groups and auxiliary groups to the ag industry, in regards to promoting what you just talked about. And I think what’s key to that is taking the perspective of rather than we need better food security, you know, farmers, ranchers get on it. It’s looking at food security as a community-based issue that has to have all of the collaborative partners working towards a common goal, whether it be the, you know, the government, whether it be in legislation, like you pointed out, whether it be financial institutions, major landowners, it’s something that if we look at it as this serves everyone, then the solutions a little more readily available.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, you know, it’s so funny, when COVID first hit, we, Robb and I, were just, we had already handed in our manuscript for Sacred Cow. And I think I was putting together like a slide presentation. And I was kind of like flipping through the book. And I looked at the end of it at our solutions that we proposed in the back of Sacred Cow. And I had sort of forgotten even what we written really. But I texted Robb, and I said, Oh my gosh, look at what we’re saying like a keep yourself healthy. But we need more regional food systems because that’s going to be the strongest, both for rural economies but also for rural health and food security. It’s absolutely critical that we get away from these centralized food production and distribution systems and more interregional. And you know, I was looking even at what was going on in Venezuela. You know, they struck it rich with oil, and everyone moved off farms, and everyone moved into cities and forgot how to farm. Farmland went fallow, price of oil shifted, all of a sudden, they can no longer afford to import food and you know, huge problems. But that was like, we never heard about that, like you turn on the news in the US or look at newspapers, you never hear about that. So I am really glad that people learned from COVID. And I’m hoping that, you know, not only regional food production but eco-friendly food production, right? And understanding that ranching is part of the ecosystem service that you’re providing.
Taylor Kellerman
No, it’s interesting, you know, the global food system was a kind of a juggernaut, but like, at the same time, it’s something that happened over time. And if you look back in 2020, hindsight, it makes sense, I get it. And you know, with less and less people, you know, 98% of us not farming, it was almost kind of a need. And I think that we got so used to it working correctly. And then that interruption, I think was a great opportunity for people to, you know, it’s kind of like you don’t know, your mailman until you stop getting your mail. Right. It’s that type of thing. And I think that one thing I do challenge your listeners and I constantly kind of chanting from the top of my mountain at least is I am starting to see that progress wane as normalization where you know, reoccurs, and that’s getting, you know, I don’t know how to put it without sounding negative, because I still think we have so much positive opportunity. But I just you know, I do think that we need to maintain and remember exactly where we were at in those dire moments, not because we want to dwell on the negative past, but because it helps drive the positive change that you referred to earlier.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Right. And what we know, too is that more ag is healthier rural economies. Let’s talk a little bit about economic impact and jobs and your labor. Because I know labor is tight in Hawaii. It’s tight everywhere, all of a sudden, you’re competing with much more relaxing jobs, I’m sure at resorts for you know, similar people. And so how does that work for you?
Taylor Kellerman
So that’s a very good question. You know, I think that there’s two primary subject matters that relate to that. And I think one is a livable wage. And I think that that’s kind of key. And the other is the passion and the desire to kind of address the livable wage portion of it, we are in a unique position. And something I’m very proud of that because our economy is diversified and because we’re driven by things external of just what we can produce on the land. Because of that being a hard economy in the current state of affairs, we are able to offer full benefits, and livable wage that would otherwise not be doable.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And I’m just going to interject because I was just watching that Hawaii is the most expensive state, you need the highest income to make it in Hawaii,
Taylor Kellerman
Our home median price on this island just hit a million dollars. So yeah, it’s pretty crazy.
Diana Rodgers, RD
It’s pretty crazy. And especially when this is where globalism in our food production really is horrible, because you’re competing with beef that’s produced in other areas where there’s still really high poverty, of course, but these workers are not paid as well as you are trying to pay your workers.
Taylor Kellerman
It’s unfortunate because the reality is, and I’ve kind of an I’m going to switch and kind of being tangential, but it’s supporting the original point, which is, you know, the reality is, is that you can be the best grape tomato farmer in Hawaii, and just be an amazing entrepreneurial spirit. And someone can fly it in from another country cheaper than you can produce a clamshell. That’s basic pencil math. And it’s an unfortunate thing. However, you know, that’s why kind of getting an entire community supported based around your local, regional food system. And the fact that cheap food is definitely great. And something that we… I’m not saying that everybody just needs to put more of their money into their food budget because there are plenty of people who can’t. However, when you’re looking at a more regional approach, that is a consideration people need to think about. And I think kind of going back to that, you know, that economics of farming, I think we do have that special ability to be able to pay our people a little bit more because of our business model. And I think that, again, kind of going back to looking at agriculture as part of the land management plan is a way to kind of soften the blow in certain ways because it being an agribusiness – agribusiness needs to be sustainable from a three-tier perspective, right environmental health, as well as economical. And I don’t want to lose this thought in my brain. So I did want to jump into it. The other thing that we’ve been trying to do from an interesting perspective, because like you said, what keeps people from just saying, I can get paid more in air conditioning than, you know, doing what you’re asking me to do in the heat and elements? And we’ve started a very robust program with our local Department of Education. It’s called their CTE program, which is the career technical education. Think of it as like, the 2022 version of Job Corps, you know, it’s kind of like, how do you teach them different skill sets, that may not necessarily be if you’re going to be moving into, say, higher education, we’ve created a platform where agriculture is part of their program. And then we seek out funding partners that from their philanthropic perspective that can then help with that program and actually pay them because of labor laws, we’re not allowed to pay internships, particularly the high school level, because of kind of how it gets weird in the rural system. So we do that at a high school level. We also have an educational program where we’re inviting people in STEM programs out to our farm as part of their outdoor classroom portion. And then at a college level, we partner with nonprofits, so that we can be a partner farm and execution of college-level paid internship programs, too. So the living wage is one thing, but then also creating interest all the way from grade school. And then exposure has been really helpful for us. I would say we’ve hit that educational portion of it. We’ve really just hit running in the last three years, and it’s amazing how much of a better employee market we’re finding. So we’re hiring a lot of ranchers, so it’s a great system overall.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, you know, I was just in New Zealand, and they’re dealing with the same thing; young people are not wanting to get into farming, and we have to figure out how to make it like sexy and cool and fun and exciting for young people to want to get into it. And it certainly needs a brand evaluation. Especially, uh, you know, at the middle and high school level, can’t just be teaching kids all how to be corporate execs, that’s just not the path for so many kids, including my son, who going to a tech school, for him, they didn’t have a sports program that he could participate in that was at the competitive level. And, you know, he just didn’t feel really comfortable going to the local tech school because it was just the building is falling apart. There’s no funding for it. And, you know, our local high school here doesn’t have shop class, they, you know, the electives are like JavaScript, and, you know, computer tech, but they’re not really showing much appreciation at all for agriculture and other really critical jobs.
Taylor Kellerman
Right, right. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, I think it’s kind of one of those things where, you know, it’s my 13-year-old, really wants to be a rancher farmer, like, it’s kind of one of those things where, you know, we have this conversation: what do you want to do, because I want to do what you do. And while that is absolutely heart-filling, you know, and it’s well as swells the heart in just that whole concept, it’s sometimes overshadowed by the fact that I know I have a very unique role. And there’s not a lot of the jobs that I do in the state, and then to try to put them into a food production system that I know is a difficult one, from a financial standpoint and a supporting yourself standpoint, you know, that is kind of like then you start questioning, what’s the legacy that we’re leaving? So if we can create a good marketed product, and we can get kids interested, but then we’re not doing the due diligence to create a system of economics that will support that. That’s always been kind of my challenge, and particularly, you know, as an island economy and island environment, I think that is the challenge quite frankly.
Diana Rodgers, RD
I agree completely. So let’s talk a little bit more about your specific job on the ranch and how the cattle are managed, what you’ve learned since working there, how long have you been there?
Taylor Kellerman
As far as the cattle side? Yeah, so we are see… we’re so as far as acreage, we’re only pasture-wise we’re at about 1700 acres or so. And so our herd is on the smaller side. We are at 600 dead total if you’re gonna count cows on the ground at any given time. You know, the cattle industry in Hawaii traditionally was for local market, and then as the global economy and refrigeration and jet airlines and all that type of things started to infiltrate economically because it is not economical to bring in feed. And we don’t have a readily source of things that can be ensiled or large amounts of feed, we are really a grass-fed state. And so because of that, the economy has really kind of driven the industry in the past 50 years to be more of a cow/calf-type of thing, where we raise calves to weaning, and then those are then sent to the mainland and sold either or some people retain ownership, and others just sell straight. And then those are then used as feed or somewhere else. In the last 20 years or so there’s been a big push to start that engine to kind of reverse, right? Like, how do we go back to it retaining animals here on state and basically providing our own needs rather than shipping in? Because you know, that’s something that’s kind of one of those basic well, yeah, but then in implementation is quite challenging. What we’ve been able to do is dedicate a good portion of our acreage to a finishing program. However, just like anybody, any other rancher, we’re limited to, you know, animals per acre. And so at this point, we have kind of settled on, with our environmental impacts, about 125 animals per year, which translates into a harvest of about five to six animals every two weeks. What we’re able to do then is we’re able to create a pipeline that is very consistent, and so we’re able to gain a customer base that we can retain. I think that’s the challenge, particularly when you’re starting to do a grass-fed beef program, at least in the environment we’re in, which is because it’s such a small portion of what’s being sold on our island, once you get a customer, you don’t want to lose them. So how do you approach your production from a pipeline rather than just a big harvest and then nothing, big harvest and then nothing? And I think that in agriculture, that’s actually the biggest challenge of the model is a production pipeline that is high quality, environmentally friendly, and has a customer base, you know, so it’s been, it’s been a fun task for sure.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I think a lot of people who are listening that are not in agriculture don’t appreciate how amazing it is that you are able to consistently have a year-round, you know, reliable number because here in New England, all slaughterhouses are booked in the wintertime, and fall and winter. No one really wants to keep their animals over winter because they’ll lose weight. And they’re, you know, you have to keep feeding them, and it can be difficult. And so most livestock producers harvest their animals in the fall in winter, which means slaughterhouse bottlenecks and then underutilized slaughterhouses in the spring and summer and also inconsistent product for you know, so we have big freezers here. And we have to, you know, try to make the meat last as long as we can.
Taylor Kellerman
Yeah, for us, it’s interesting because we do have grass growth 12 months a year, however, ironically, coupled with grasses, nutritionally-wise are not as robust as say overwintering grasses. So, you know, the forage types that we are required to finish animals on is usually based on diversity. So if you can have, like, we have mixtures of senna, maybe California, grass, Guinea grass, pengelola, you know, and other broadleaves that they forage on. That kind of creates a nice, well-rounded, nutrition type of input, or intake. However, those who do ranch might be interested, you know, for us to get a 1200-pound animal takes about 28 months. So when you consider that a grain-fed or, you know, a concentrated feeding animal can hit, you know, 1500 in 18 months. It’s also from a cost perspective, again, how do you create a business model that you can incur those additional costs of not having to depend on that non-regional food system, right? And at the same time, still kind of be true to your, what you’re trying to do? You know, it’s there. Yeah. It’s a passion project, for sure.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I’m not sure if you are at all impacted by this carbon tunnel vision that I’ve been talking about a little bit at some of the conferences I’ve gone to where, you know, New Zealand was a great example similar in that they are in a very humid, lush environment. So they’re largely grass-based. But of course, the longer the animal lives, the more methane they produce, right? And so a lot of farmers are being incentivized to take portions of their land out of farming completely to plant monocrop, non-native trees, which is quite unfortunate. And I’ve seen similar policies around in Brazil. They’re just moving more towards feedlot finishing. Because if they need to reduce their carbon emissions, that’s the easiest way to do it. It’s just, well, finish them on a feedlot. So is there anything going on? Are you under any pressure? You know, I know, and my listeners know that you’re providing ecosystem services. And that the methane is a flow gas and not the same as fossil fuels. And there’s nothing wrong with raising cattle for beef, but what’s going on with any sort of pressure?
Taylor Kellerman
It’s an interesting concept, because that is something that, you know, as the world changes, as the landscape changes, particularly around you know, I wouldn’t use the term urban sprawl but you know, as residential areas tend to start reaching into these more urban, traditionally urban locations, you do start to feel pressure, I think, because of just what’s being said, like you said, what’s the common thing and I think, and this is just, I want to be forthright, this is just my personal opinion. I do find it interesting when the argument around animal agriculture comes into play because I feel like there is an unfair disregard for the same type of vegetative remediation in carbon sequestration that grass does as opposed to trees because grass itself is a carbon sequester. Grass itself does exactly the same thing the trees do. And I’ll even go as far as arguing, when you think of pasture being something that has lawn mowers go through it every few months, that vigorous regrowth of vegetative material is, in a way, constantly regenerating that sequestration, where once a tree reaches a full height, you know, there’s kind of a steady state to it. And again, I have no numbers to prove that. But just biologically speaking, it seems to kind of make sense. And so I think for us, we really try to promote our ecosystem services, through you know, open space, local food production, land stewardship, you know, if you these people that are with ranching, currently, the land is their asset, that’s, you know, there’s no reason why they wouldn’t be the investors they could. But then also the fact that you know, rangeline does offer that same sequestration as others. I think it’s just kind of easy to jump on – I don’t know how to put this jump on kind of a craze that makes the most sense at the time, but to not really then take a step back and really kind of look at what the other alternatives are, you know.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Exactly. And not only can grasslands sequester carbon, but like you said it, they need to be cut and the best way to cut them is to have it, chewed by an animal and then biologically broken down and excreted out the other end while turning that food we can’t eat, on land we can’t farm into the most nutritious food for people. While we’re looking at this burden of disease, we have with not only overfed people, but undernourished at the same time, in addition to undernourished people. And I know that this is a big problem on Hawaii, as it is everywhere, but particularly in Hawaii, you know, more healthy meat is one of the best solutions for cutting down on healthcare costs. And, you know, just getting people to eat better food in general.
Taylor Kellerman
You know, this is totally off subject, but I’m known in my circle as being random, but promise I have a point. I was talking to my son, who again, he’s 13. And he’s very much into this lifestyle. And we were talking about humans. And he said, If humans didn’t rule the world, what species would? You how your 13-year-old just comes up with strange things. And I thought about it. And I said, you know, it’s really interesting, because, you know, humans are so prevalent because we’re so adaptable. And I think that we get caught up in the fact that there is this exist existence of a perfect human diet, and you know, the keto, the no carbs, the no meat. And I think it’s ironic, because my point being is that I think, you know, proper exercise and whole foods and highly nutritional intakes, whatever that may be, is really the key that we have gotten away from and we keep looking for this magic bullet. And I think that you know, ranching and other things like this in a food production setting have somehow gotten caught in the crossfire in some weird way. You know, and I think it’s kind of important. I think it’s very important that we have these types of conversations because I think, if you know, one drawback of having so few people produce your food is that the story can be told by many people not involved. And oftentimes, that’s what we find here is that I’m having my story told by people that I’ve never met. And that I’m pretty sure have never been here. And I kind of questioned the validity of it. And then you realize, well, when you’re not telling your own story, you’re creating a space for those to tell it for you. So, it is really interesting in the sense of, yeah, I am, I’m gonna pull back in because I realized I’m way too tangent.
Diana Rodgers, RD
I don’t know. I like that. I was totally with you, yeah.
Taylor Kellerman
No, it’s just it is something that I think that we as an industry can do a lot better. There’s no question. And I think that, you know, rather than just kind of dwelling over these black and white circumstances, we need to really look at how everything is impacted. From again, I keep going back to this from a community level, not just to us-and-them type of thing.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Totally, totally. Well, maybe there’s an opportunity. You’ve got your hospitality program down with your, you know, Jurassic Park, it was it? Just briefly indulge the listeners here, but I think I saw on your website, Jurassic Park was filmed there?
Taylor Kellerman
Yeah. So we were very fortunate in that part of Jurassic Park was filmed here to name a few others. Jumanji was filmed here. 50 First Dates was filmed here. We’ve had about 30 different movies and about 250 different episodes of TV filmed here. So Magnum PI, both the first one and the last one. A lot of Lost was filmed here, yeah. And NCIS was filmed here. So it’s pretty cool. And what’s really neat is that is our sell-in when it comes to the agritourism. Because, you know, people want to see where these movies are filmed. And it’s amazing. And what we don’t advertise, but we’re very, very particular about is, we’re going to bring you in on the pretense that you get to see an awesome movie set. But while you here, we’re going to take you through a ton of our ag area, and we’re gonna teach you a lot about agriculture that we do.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Okay, so that was my big question is you know, how are you incorporating, you know, ag education into the…
Taylor Kellerman
Every tour has an ag education component. And it’s basically, it’s a must, and what’s even better too is that it’s got an ag education component. And then we’re working really, diligently now, to make sure that our acknowledgment of native Hawaiian history in that culture is also part of it. Because the idea is that you have a captive audience. And it’s up to us as a state if we want to, you know, commit to the concept of sustainable tourism, that you have to educate your visitor. And you have to bring them into why this place is so special, and why they should respect it as much as the residents that live here. And so those of us who have a sell-in like Jurassic World, and it’s unique, it’s up to us to make sure that we also convey the correct information around food production, around culture, and around environmental stewardship, from a holistic point of view.
Diana Rodgers, RD
I love it that sort of like bacon being the gateway meat products for people to like, get them back and the helicopter tours are like the gateway to teaching everybody about. Yeah. Or did I see it was, is that one of the things you offer?
Taylor Kellerman
No. Actually, so as of right now, we really tried to depend on low-impact types of things. So when it comes to you know, horseback rides is where it started. E-bikes or electric bikes is a really popular format. And then we also have established key roads throughout the property that are put in in a way that it doesn’t have a detrimental environment impact. And then we have things like the movie site tour, and we have things like the jungle tour that will take you through a portion of Hakipu’u that is, you know, very raw and very jungle feeling. And you get to learn all about the area, the history and things like that. Just basically popular ways to experience the beauty and the content of the property while not leaving a big environmental impact. Zipline is a perfect example. Because zipline you can have a lot of people enjoy the scenery, but it’s just seven towers that they walk through. So think of it as you know, it’s something they get to see our ranching through that aspect. They get to drive past some of our, you know, ag crop areas. We do a lot of native hardwood, forestry, and a silvopasture type of management wherever we’re doing forestry within our pasture system. And then so the whole time as you’re walking between towers, you’re talking to the guests about it, having tangible examples, and what we found is that if you can give visitors a multi-sense, you know, or something that hits on multi senses. In other words, not just visual, but smell, even taste, feel – you tend to create those indelible memories and learnings that you wouldn’t get otherwise than if you just kind of say, oh, no, this is this, you know, done.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. Well, so tell folks how they can find out about you – the website. Are you on Instagram? Which Island you’re on in case you know, it’s probably more of my West Coast listeners that are going to Hawaii. I’ve never been. I’m trying to collect a group of people that would make sense for me to come down. So I hope to have an opportunity.
Taylor Kellerman
Yeah, no you definitely need to come. It’s like I said, I’m fourth, third generation here on this island. And I was lucky enough to live in Oregon for two years to go to college. But I hightailed it back here pretty quickly. So it’s a very, very special place that I encourage everybody to visit. We are on the island of Oahu, and we’re on the windward side in a place called Ka’a’awa. And our website is kualoa.com – KUALOA.com That is the website for the whole business. For people that want to learn more about our agriculture, I suggest that you visit – we have a dedicated Instagram and it’s Kualoa grown so the same first term KUALOA, with the term grown all one word, at, excuse me, @kualoagrown and that’s our Instagram handle for, and I kind of refer everybody to that when they will learn more about the food side.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And it’s not just beef and pigs and you briefly mentioned vegetables, but I saw on your website, there’s oysters there’s shrimp, there’s…
Taylor Kellerman
So we do local part grass-fed beef, we’re the only oyster producer on – we’re the only Department of Health-certified oyster producer on Oahu. We do Pacific white shrimp. We do 12 different vegetables, about 20 different fruits. And then we have a really robust line of value-add products. We do a lot of our own chocolate. Chocolate’s a big crop of ours. We produce about 60,000 bars a year – three different kinds. And so it’s kind of one of those things where, you know, we’ve been able to develop the agribusiness kind of coinciding with the other businesses, and it’s great because the family, the Morgan family, that kind of is the, you know, the driver of this the cornerstone of all this. What brought me here as an actual – because I’m a production ag person and I always have worked in agriculture, agri-tourism is just since I’ve been here, and I’ve been here eight years. What brought me here was they dedicate the agriculture and stewardship and the other businesses we talked about around agri-tourism, they’re all equally important. So as one does well, the other you know, from a budget perspective, you know, it’s nothing is done in a kind of, you know, percentage of importance, they’re all equal. And so as far as having that ability to have a sustainable model for the future, in regards to land management, with food production being a key cornerstone of that, I’d like to say we are a shining example. That’s what drives me, you know, it’s pretty cool.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I really enjoyed learning all about this, I am gonna try to figure out a way to get down there. I hope our listeners who visit Hawaii get to do one of the tours, anything else before we go?
Taylor Kellerman
No, I just appreciate you having me on board and hearing my soapbox perspective on a lot of things. And I think, you know, a lot of great questions, and I think a lot of similar thought processes. So I really appreciate the opportunity.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, well, thank you so much for your time today. And I hope everybody enjoyed this podcast and support you when they go visit Hawaii. So thank you.
Taylor Kellerman
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Diana Rodgers, RD
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