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My co-author and friend, Robb Wolf, and I are back again with another Fireside Chat where we get into current events and the latest research articles about food and nutrition. And despite a bad internet connection, we get into a couple of great topics this time.
First, we catch up on all the new happenings at Sustainable Dish
- The new website relaunch
- I’m hiring for a Digital Marketing Manager. Check out the job description here.
- The all-new Sustainavore Course coming soon. Stay tuned for details (full credit to Robb for the name)
- The shout out from Bear Grylls
Then we get into why the “Less Meat, Better Meat” concept should die and cover these big current topics in research and the news:
- A new paper on how eating meat affects linear growth in kids and why it’s important. You can read more about the science on the Global Food Justice Alliance here
- The Starbucks “Justice Cup” hoax and a quick fact check. You can read the Starbucks response here.
Tune in to hear Robb and me break it all down.
Resources:
John Sapp and the Roam Free Bison Ranch
Connect with Robb:
Website: The Healthy Rebellion
Instagram: @dasrobbwolf
LinkedIn: Robb Wolf
Facebook: RobbWolf.com
Twitter: @robbwolf
YouTube: Robb Wolf
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Episode Credits:
Thank you to all who’ve made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Meg Chatham, and our editor is Emily Soape. And of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners.
Quotes:
“All meat is healthy period. There are better and worse ways to produce it. But we really need people in the grass-fed beef, regenerative world to check their elitism and understand human nutrition a little bit better.” – Diana Rodgers, RD
“Costco and Walmart may not be open, but the family farm down the street is always going to be open if you’ve patronized it, and you’ve built a relationship with them.” – Robb Wolf
“We know for a fact that if you eat a sustainavore or nutrivore type of diet built around mainly grazing animal-type protein inputs, and then good vegetable matter, you’re not going to be a patronizer of our sick care system.” – Robb Wolf
“I get so fired up about the Meatless Mondays campaign taking over in New York City public schools where 70% of those kids are low income because we have no science at all, no evidence to show that pulling meat away from kids is going to actually improve anything.” – Diana Rodgers, RD
Transcript:
(Intro) Diana Rodgers, RD 0:01
Welcome to the Sustainable Dish Podcast. I’m Diana Rodgers, a real food registered dietitian, author, and sustainability advocate. I co-host this podcast with James Connelly who was a producer on my film sacred cow. I also founded the Global Food Justice Alliance and initiative advocating for the inclusion of animal source foods like meat, dairy, and eggs for a more nutritious, sustainable, and equitable worldwide food system. You can check it out and join me at global food justice.org. Thanks again for listening. And now onto our show.
Diana Rodgers, RD 0:39
So welcome back to the tandem recording that Robb and I are doing here, so I’m calling it a fireside chat. What are you calling it Robb?
Robb Wolf 0:47
We could call it a barbecue side chat.
Diana Rodgers, RD 0:50
Okay. campfire,
Robb Wolf 0:52
Campfire. Yeah, yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD 0:54
Yeah. Where we’re basically roasting articles and other current events that are coming up in our feeds and just sort of updating each other and the world on what’s happening. So snow is…
Robb Wolf 1:08
We’re making meaty s’mores out of all of it.
Diana Rodgers, RD 1:12
Is there snow there?
Robb Wolf 1:14
There’s some snow. We, you know, it’s funny, we had maybe two decent snows and like four inches, six inches. And then we’ll get a deluge of rain but it’ll just get warm enough that if it rains it whereas like if it was a little colder, we get like two feet of snow. So yeah, we’re, just knocking on the door to it. The locals keep telling me to just pump the brakes are like you’ll get plenty of snow. You just wait. So…
Diana Rodgers, RD 1:40
Yeah, I remember John Sepp from the bison ranch from Roam Free. Actually, you’re wearing their hat. He was telling me that he had a feeling that after this winter, a lot of the folks that have moved to the Kalispell area may move back.
Robb Wolf 1:56
Split. Yeah, yeah, that’s part of why I’m hoping for just like a Donner party like 20 feet of snow type deal but hasn’t happened yet.
Diana Rodgers, RD 2:05
Well, it’s it makes me really miss having young kids because there’s nothing more fun than playing with them in the snow. Yeah. At least until they get too cold and they want to come inside, but I’m sure it’s fun with the girls.
Robb Wolf 2:18
They don’t get cold. Like they were out there for like six hours. And just going. I helped them set up a sled course. And I had to bring like electrolytes out to them because they were getting like chapped lips and everything. And I was like, Okay, you got to drink some fluids and stay on top of that. But I had to bring food out to them. And they just wouldn’t come in to do anything. So I don’t know if we got them outstanding snow gear. Or they’re just little nuclear power plants or something. I don’t know. But they… thus far they have not gotten cold.
Diana Rodgers, RD 2:53
That’s awesome. Well, they do a really good job of imaginary play. Like it’s how I played when I was little and especially with their little horse sets and everything. It was really cute. So there might be something coming in the mail actually, in a couple of days from me.
Robb Wolf 3:07
Oh, cool!
Diana Rodgers, RD 3:07
A new thing to play with. Yeah, so I can’t buy… My kids are so boring. They just like, give me a list of like, all the stuff they want and expect it and there’s like no room for me to you know…
Robb Wolf 3:22
Improvise?
Diana Rodgers, RD 3:23
And I really meant by that, like, when they used to have their little play mobiles or their little like imagination games like obviously, we’re not there anymore. It’s just boring. Like I want, you know, whatever to go with my earbuds and stuff like that. So…
Robb Wolf 3:39
They’re real people now. They’re not magical little people.
Diana Rodgers, RD 3:43
Yeah, although they, you know, speaking of cold weather, and being able to tolerate that. They have been surfing like crazy, like even through the winter. So we’re dealing with a little ear infection with Phoebe because of that. But they’ll be gone for hours. It’s hard to pull them out of the freezing cold ocean just to feed them.
Robb Wolf 4:06
Right. That’s good. Yeah, it’s good.
Diana Rodgers, RD 4:09
Um, so I have a couple of new things that I’m really psyched to talk about. One is I have a brand new website redesign that’s launching. So it’s going to happen… you and I are recording a few days before this is actually a few days before it is going to be broadcast. And so the new website should be up, either by the time this airs or soon at Sustainable Dish, And we’re going to be also releasing… I’m going to be releasing a new course. Thank you so much for the name. I’m really excited about that.
Robb Wolf 4:42
Do I get some full credit on that or?
Diana Rodgers, RD 4:43
Full credit. However you want it. So for the folks listening, Robb and I were chatting on the phone and he came up with the name “Sustainavore” because I was trying to think of what word represents a diet that I do where I also am talking about something sustainable for, you know, long term that doesn’t feel like a crash diet, but then also for the planet and ethics and all that kind of stuff. And I was playing sort of what the idea of nutrivore for a while. We address that in the back of Sacred Cow. But I’m just loving Sustainavore. So I right after we hung up, I bought the URL. And yeah, so that’s gonna be my new evergreen course.
Robb Wolf 5:29
Awesome. Awesome. I have a good idea every once in a while.
Diana Rodgers, RD 5:33
You do! Grass World and Sustainavore were two of your best ideas so far.
Robb Wolf 5:37
My main contributions? Yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD 5:41
So that’s coming out, and, you know, right in time for the new year for folks. And then the other big thing is I’m hiring. So if anyone watching or listening is interested, I could use a good social media manager, digital marketer, among other things. So I have a job description on sustainable dish.com on the blog, or you can also check out my Instagram feed. So I’m posting today for that. So that’s it. The other thing I wanted to mention… do you know who Bear Grylls is?
Robb Wolf 6:18
Of course, The girls and I watch his stuff all the time. His later shows have gotten a little bit goofy. But yeah, I mean, like, Man Versus Wild and all that stuff. Yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD 6:30
Yeah. So I didn’t know who he was
Robb Wolf 6:33
Oh, my goodness. Oh.
Diana Rodgers, RD 6:35
And, and I got tagged on Instagram that he, you know, he used to be vegan. And he actually has a vegan book out, you know, from a while ago. He read Sacred Cow gave us a shout-out on social media.
Robb Wolf 6:51
Oh! I had no idea
Diana Rodgers, RD 6:52
Yeah. And it was only crediting Diana Rodgers – R-O-G-E-R-S. Uh, no, Wolfie at all on that one. But I…
Robb Wolf 7:01
You’re the star of that show.
Diana Rodgers, RD 7:05
But it’s so funny. It’s actually Mickie from New Zealand, who you and I were just chatting about. She’s the one who was like, oh my god, this is so great. I was like, Who is that? And so she…
Robb Wolf 7:17
He’s pretty famous. He’s not A list, but he’s a B+ celebrity for sure. Yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD 7:25
Yeah. So, I mentioned to Anson, my son, and he’s like, Oh, my God, mom. I buy like all my survival gear through him. Yeah. So I pinged him on Twitter. Trying to invite him on the podcast. We’ll see.
Robb Wolf 7:39
Oh yeah. Right on. Okay. Very cool. Yeah. So
Diana Rodgers, RD 7:42
Yeah, so he… Yeah, it was a post where he is talking about kind of what he eats in a day, which is right in line with everything you and I talk about.
Robb Wolf 7:52
Awesome. Awesome. I was not aware of that. That’s super cool. So yeah, he said, he’s a great guy. It’s funny, there was him and then another Survival Guide that would… Bear would go out and he had some camera crew with him and stuff like that. And then another guy, Les, I believe his name would go out by himself. And so like, he would need to set up multiple cameras along a path. And then he would walk past it to get the film and then go back and collect the cameras. And you know, and he was just out there totally alone. So in classic internet fashion, there was this pissing match about which one of these people was tougher and which one was better. And you know, there were the different camps, but really appreciate both of them. And it’s been following both of their shows has been a longtime favorite for us, and particularly the girls like they really dig it. So that’s cool.
Diana Rodgers, RD 8:44
Yeah, I actually just rewatched Captain Fantastic. Have you seen that film?
Robb Wolf 8:50
I did. Yeah. That one’s kind of a gut-wrencher
Diana Rodgers, RD 8:53
Oh, man. Anson and I… he’s like, I’ve never watched that whole movie. And so just the other night, we watched it, and right in the beginning, he’s like, Mom, that’s exactly what I want. That’s… like he’s like ready to just go homestead and have kids and like, start life now. It’s really fun. And yeah, so those early scenes, he was like, this is it. This is it. And then we watch the wheels fall off and everything like that, but…
Robb Wolf, 9:17
Right, right.
Diana Rodgers, RD 9:19
Anyway, so what else is going on? A couple other things I was going to bring up. On the Global Food Justice Alliance, I posted about just that whole idea of less meat better meat and why that needs to die. About a month ago or so I got into a very heated back and forth with a woman who was a regenerative farmer in Australia. And she was like, Yeah, but you know, meat’s contribution to non-communicable diseases and I’m like, Oh, God, that needs to end. That needs to end. All meat is healthy. Period. There are better and worse ways to produce it. But, you know, we really need people in the grass-fed beef regenerative world to check their elitism and understand human nutrition a little bit better. Because telling people who can’t afford regenerative grass-fed beef that they need to go eat beans and rice for four to five times the caloric intake. Yeah, is absolutely not okay.
Robb Wolf 10:29
It’s interesting because folks in this scene have related to me that oftentimes, this is how they differentiate themselves. You know, it’s like, oh, it’s more nutritious. It’s this. It’s that and I think that this has been some of the pushback that we have received from these folks. And it’s, it’s understandable. I mean, you look at social media writ large, and how do you build a really large following. You know, a strategy is just having a super polarizing message that’s kind of hyperbolic. And I don’t know that these folks are doing this in bad faith, but it certainly is a low-hanging fruit as a distinguisher. Like, why would I buy this stuff from you versus, you know, Costco, or Walmart or something like that? So I commiserate with them on the one hand, and again, this is something that you and I really *bleep* wish that it wasn’t the case. You know, I mean, this is something we agonized over when we’re doing the book and tried to look at it from every direction we could because it would be like the, you know, the vegan greenwash deal. It’s like, oh, no, no, it’s good for everything. Like there’s literally no, no downside, or, you know, no delta to it at all. And it’s like, well, there are some caveats here. Which I would hope when people are thinking about this stuff, it’s like, well, if it’s not just a clean sweep, and there’s a little bit of nuance and some unfortunate prickly, you know…
Diana Rodgers, RD 11:59
Science
Robb Wolf 12:00
Science in there that maybe it makes it a little bit more credible. It doesn’t guarantee just because, you know, there’s some forks in the road doesn’t guarantee that that’s the true story. But *bleep* if that doesn’t look a lot more like real life versus like, you know, the vegan thing of, you’ll be skinny, you’ll be healthier, you’ll live forever. The planet will be saved.
Diana Rodgers, RD 12:21
No death possible
Robb Wolf 12:22
Yeah, no death. And, you know, that’s great, that sounds wonderful. And then you start digging into it, it all just collapses. So, it’s interesting. Yeah, to say, just really quick, as an aside, I do a fair number of podcasts. And maybe a third of them, the topic ends up being kind of Sacred Cow and regenerative ag and whatnot. And more recently, I’ve been getting on more entrepreneur business-type podcasts. And it’s been interesting the reception there, because the folks when they initially kind of look at the book, or maybe, you know, maybe just give the film a glance, and they’re expecting this, like super hardcore, like, grass-fed, you know, dairy that is hand-milked by the Dalai Lama, you know, and it’ll like, in anything south of that is completely inappropriate. And then I go on there, and I’m like, Hey, man, you know, beef, lamb, goat over chicken, pork, etc, because of a variety of reasons. And I kind of, you know, nutrition, and the inputs, and the outputs, and all that, you know, the environment that are raised and the ethics and everything. And then beyond that, if you had the extra money, buy local, support people you know. Particularly as the world seems to be going in interesting, you know, directions. Costco and Walmart may not be open, but the family farm down the street is always going to be open if you’ve patronized it, and you’ve built a relationship with them. And so maybe these are the cases for that. And if you’re, you’re like Anson, and you are carving your way in the world, and just getting started as a family or something like that, then the Costco Walmart, you know, meat is just fine. Because we want it… the big point I’ve been making is, it would be really helpful if we keep you and your family out of our sick care system. We know for a fact that if you eat a sustainavore or nutrivore type of diet built around these, you know, mainly grazing animal type protein inputs, and then you know, good vegetable matter to you know, as per your needs, you’re not going to be a patronizer of our sick care system, other than maybe an accident or something. And that’s like the most important thing. And then all this other stuff kind of gets ordered out from there. But it’s so it’s, it’s been interesting because these are folks that are not in this circle. They’re not well steeped on this topic. I think they’re expecting a very different kind of monochromatic message. And so it’s been kind of cool to be able to dip into some of those circles and help share this perspective with them.
Diana Rodgers, RD 15:05
Yeah, and there is some research kind of, there’s some folks poking around looking at the different, like flavonoids or whatever and polyphenols. They’re even looking at the microbiome of the cattle and is it different and pasture-raised. Which is all fine. But what I keep trying to point out is, we don’t know really what the daily recommended intake is of polyphenols. We don’t truly understand the significance it has in the human diet. And if your cow has more Saccharomyces that’s not something you can put on the front of your package. So I think there’s there’s a lot of… there’s this one group, in particular, that’s charging farmers to do all this extra testing on their beef. And I, you know, when people ask me about it, I’m like, save your money, and just do a good job and build relationships with people so that they know you as a producer and trust you and want to support you. Right. And the other great thing is just kind of supporting the rural economy period and supporting small-town America, which is completely collapsed, because… largely because of industrial agriculture taking over. So, if we want strong small towns, then you have to support small businesses and medium-sized businesses in the towns. And actually, you know, just talking about the importance of just people getting meat period, there is a new paper that came out, it’s called Animal Sourced Foods Rich in Essential Amino Acids are Important for Linear Growth in Children in Low and Middle-Income Countries. And basically, this paper found that even when their total protein intake was sufficient, they were still lacking in amino acids, because of limited access to the nutrient-dense foods you find in animal source foods and in particular meat, because that dairy just doesn’t cut it as the only supplement you have to have animal source foods. And that has, I’m really excited about this paper on the global level because I think that that can really help. You know you hear a lot Oh, well, we’re eating plenty of protein. You know, like, you hear that a lot from the vegetarian side. And so just pointing out that that’s, we don’t just need protein, we need amino acids. There’s a little more complicated than just protein intake.
Robb Wolf 17:42
In the, you know, the other end of that life cycle, I neglected to put this one in today’s show, but I’ll see if I can remember to pull it up last time, but all-cause mortality, inversely related to protein intake, you know, animal protein intake. So
Diana Rodgers, RD 18:01
In older adults, right? Yeah. That paper. Yeah, I have it on my Facebook page, actually.
Robb Wolf 18:06
Okay. Yeah, yeah. And so another one and, you know, all of these, you know, the evil kind of retrospective, epidemiological, you know, stuff that we’d love to poke holes in when it’s supporting the vegan agenda. So I’ll mention, you know, it’s not in my mind gold standard stuff. But it is interesting that I think that it seems like the longer this goes on, and the more people who get in and look at this stuff, the more that we find a signal emerging that well actually, you know, once we factor in for confounders, like just generally a sick population, when we… particularly when we look in developing countries where the burden of metabolic disease has not hit them due to the ubiquity of highly processed foods, then we really see the signal emerge that adequate animal protein intake into being a huge thing. I think it gets murky, then once a country has industrialized enough for the access to meat, they have access to sugar and they have access to seed oils and too many calories and lots and lots of different flavors, I think it… and also socio-political agendas that want to push a vegan or, you know, vegetarian approach to things. So it gets harder to suss that out. But it’s interesting that at least there’s very powerful signals both at the beginning of the lifecycle and near the later stages of the life cycle that adequate animal protein intake is a huge boon for people. I guess if you want to be swanky and cool and in your 20s and 30s go vegan so that you have a cool social network and you can feel hoity-toity for a period of time, you can live off the banked goodwill of having had a successful childhood but then when you start really thinking about aging properly, other things may emerge as options.
Diana Rodgers, RD 20:05
Yeah, and like, you know, for people like you and I, who really suffered from malabsorption issues as children. You know, that’s really why I get so fired up about this kind of stuff because I know what happens. Like I had osteopenia at age 23, from undiagnosed celiac disease, and so access to just basic nutrients that humans need to grow properly and have good brain function. I mean, you and I talked about when we were in high school, both of us you know, it was funny we describe the same kind of like cloudy like head full of cotton balls, word spinning on pages. Like I couldn’t pay attention and now when I do occasionally, you know when I eat out, I’ll get a… I’ll have a gluten reaction sometimes. It’s kind of unavoidable, you know if you eat anywhere other than your own home
Robb Wolf 21:02
If you roll the dice enough. Yeah.
Diana Rodger, RD 21:03
And I’m out like, I can’t work I can’t think I so it’s not just like a gut reaction. It’s a full-on neurological reaction.
Robb Wolf 21:14
Yeah, you know, and it’s, it’s interesting with Zoey… neither Zoey nor Sagan seem to show any type of like, a gut reactivity. But Zoey gets a kind of a tick. And I had an interesting breathing tick as a kid [Robb takes stuttering breaths]. And it just goes. And Zoey will… we’ve tinkered with, like, okay, we’re at a friend’s birthday party, and, you know, they have gluten cake or whatever, okay, give it a shot, and it doesn’t work well. And this is the way that I started off. I had these kinds of low level, you know, reactions like this tick and things like that. And it grew into worse things. And so we’re just trying to kick the can for those two, you know when they’re adults. It’ll be interesting to see what decisions they make, but they enjoy towering over their peers and their age group and being super strong and fit and athletic and everything. They really enjoy that. And I’m just like, eat a lot of protein don’t eat, you know, *bleep* food, particularly gluten. And you’ve, you’ve got that locked up. And both of them have kind of internalized that. So yeah.
Diana Rodgers, RD 22:21
Yeah. And, and the linear growth, you know, people might not really understand the impact of the and yeah,
Robb Wolf 22:30
We’re just like, blazing by that. What is the implications of linear growth?
Diana Rodgers, RD 22:33
Right. So it’s not just like being tall is fun, or, you know, gives you a slight advantage on dating apps or something like that, right?
Robb Wolf 22:42
In politics. Yeah, the tall person always wins. So right, right, right.
Diana Rodgers, RD 22:46
But so linear growth is associated with nutrient status. And stunting is irreversible, pretty much. I did look it up there. Because there was a new… there’s new information out about stunting and its relation to meat intake. And there are some studies looking at reversing stunting in some small South American studies. But overall, folks can gain weight so they can make up for the girth, but you can’t really make up for height after a certain level of stunting. And with stunting comes impaired brain development. And, in fact, I just posted about this on the Global Food Justice Alliance social media feed because there’s a lot of science. So stunting and wasting are linked with 45% of all deaths under three and stunted children are sick more often, miss opportunities to learn, perform less well in school, grow up to be economically disadvantaged, and are more likely to suffer from chronic diseases. So making sure kids get adequate access to high-quality protein, ie meat is critical, especially if it’s a lower middle-income country, and these guys are already at a disadvantage.
Robb Wolf 24:16
Right. And that would extrapolate also to socio-economic position within a more developed country as well.
Diana Rodgers, RD 24:24
Exactly, exactly. Which is why I get so fired up about the Meatless Mondays campaign taking over in New York City public schools, where 70% of those kids are low income, because we have no science at all, no evidence to show that pulling meat away from kids is going to actually improve anything.
Robb Wolf 24:42
You want to cover more on that or do you want to talk about this wacky Starbucks deal?
Diana Rodgers, RD 24:47
I’m good for this podcast on the importance of meat and kids. I’m sure I’ll rant about it again. But yeah, why don’t you talk about this Starbucks thing.
Robb Wolf 24:57
So I get all kinds of *bleep* in my inbox like sometimes I think it’s people just fishing like the like, raw bat something and they fire it off to me and it just lands in there because I don’t know how I get subscribed to a ton of the stuff that I see. But this thing came in my inbox. “Starbucks reverses years of dietary racism by ending a charge on plant-based milk. Justice cup signals the company’s progressive leadership and support of BIPOC customers.” And it just kind of goes on from there. And so I fired this off to Diana because there was just a lot wrong with this thing right out of the gate. And Diana, I don’t know which stuff you want to jump into like, it has a graphic. 65% of the world’s population can’t digest dairy and it says 95% of Asians, 60 to 80% of Black people, 80 to 100% of Native Americans, 50 to 80% of Latin X people. Which I don’t know when Latino was swapped out for Latin X but… okay, there you go shows I’m an old guy and a white guy and all the rest of that stuff. But even this graphic alone is such… so misrepresentative because out of so many of these people’s dairying has been a major factor. Now many of these folks don’t handle lactose well, but many of these people via traditional food systems have fermented and processed different dairy products for 1000s of years and do just fine on them. And so they’ve used bacterial fermentation and other techniques to be able to consume dairy. So this is just one of these things that’s asked champing at the base that you know that dairy is a racist item, when in fact, it’s like no… one no it’s not. It’s an optional food that maybe you do or don’t include. And most of the folks that are mentioned here have in fact included dairying, you know, various dairy sources over the course of time, just they process different ways. So this was the first email that came in, and there were just a lot of wacky things. And Diana, I don’t know if you remember specific outtakes from this, there’s a part… “Starbucks is taking the initiative to apologize for having perpetuated deeply rooted systemic inequalities in our pricing of plant-based milk. When we commit to offering a more equitable experience for the global majority, which suffers from lactose intolerance.” Which I don’t know that I’ve ever read a sentence with more virtue signaling in it, than that one, there’s maybe some out there, but I don’t know this one’s super-rich with this. And what the hell’s my point? So this thing came in. And I just found a lot of fascinating features to it, a lot of inaccuracies. And then it was followed up with what appears to be a legitimate response from Starbucks. And it came in I don’t know what 20 minutes
Diana Rodgers, RD 27:55
Pretty quickly right after.
Robb Wolf 27:57
Okay, so this is apparently the statement from Starbucks. “It has come to our attention that false information has been released to press about Starbucks, raising prices on beverages made with dairy milk and removing up charges on nondairy milks based on the prevalence of lactose intolerance and people of color versus white people. This is a hoax. Understandably, this is caused much public concern, we assure our most valued customers that we would never place the burden of a dairy upcharge on them.” There were some things that you had that were kind of standouts in this. One of the things… so I’m not even sure totally sure what my angle is on this. But as I was reading through it, there was just one I thought it was really interesting that this is a topic worth perpetuating a hoax over. Like, that’s just interesting to me, and again, just totally taking this ultra divisive angle on it and also a very inaccurate angle from the perspective of traditional food sources. But then the response… one of the things that popped out. “While we have openly acknowledged that dairy products are the single biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions across our supply chain. We do not intend to address this by penalizing customers who prefer dairy.”
Diana Rodgers, RD 29:11
So right and that’s not in the one… That’s in the real one.
Robb Wolf 29:17
Yeah, the water first completely taken out of context like you know, the rain, the precipitation all gets allocated as if it is we are stealing that water from something other than watering grasslands. So you know, kind of ridiculous there. And then the carbon dioxide emissions that is the single largest… I just can’t believe this, like run…. This is what is so interesting about the way that the accounting is made on this stuff and why the singular focus on greenhouse gas emissions I think is going to end up being the biggest *bleep* boondoggle and like literally the history of the world. Because these folks are telling me that this is a greater issue than running your brick and mortar facilities and the electricity that goes into that, and the building materials that went into building the building and you know, on and on and on. It is such a *beep* position like if you’re really going to go out and make these claims, take the time to do the due diligence. Like, do the complete lifecycle analysis and all that type of stuff.
Diana Rodgers, RD 30:23
Yeah, I mean, you and I were right about the lab meat being an absolute disaster from a thermal thermodynamics perspective. And the Financial Times later reported on that, and, you know, someone actually looked and this was before the numbers were even available. And you and I were like, this makes no sense. But certainly, with Starbucks, I would guarantee just heating and lighting, those cafes is way more emissions than milk.
Robb Wolf 30:53
Do you want to mention the Justice cup really quick? Or do we finish on a good note not get ourselves hung?
Diana Rodgers, RD 31:01
Well, I mean, the Justice cup was part of this is that hoax, right? You know, Starbucks was introducing a Justice cup to sort of make up for the injustice of serving milk to people who, quote-unquote, can’t digest milk.
Robb Wolf 31:16
Optionally could get it or not?
Diana Rodgers, RD 31:19
And, you know, there’s choices at Starbucks
Robb Wolf 31:23
Well, our internet is bad enough maybe it’s gonna save us from stepping off a cliff.
Diana Rodgers, RD 31:30
Yeah, the gods are just telling you to stop. Cut it out. So anything else quickly before you get cut off again, Robb, with your internet. Okay, it looks like we’ve totally lost Robb in the copper. Aw! There he is. Dude. All right. I was just about to wrap for you and say goodbye on behalf of you. So, so maybe we should just kind of wrap it and cross our fingers for a better connection for our next chat.
Robb Wolf 32:06
Absolutely. Thank you for doing this. Sorry, everybody that we had terrible internet. We’ll see if we can figure out some solutions on that.
Diana Rodgers, RD 32:13
All right. Well, this is, you know, I look forward to chatting next time. I’m sure the connection will be much better next time.
Robb Wolf 32:20
Hopefully, we’ll do our best. Okay. Awesome, Diana. Take care. Okay. Bye. Bye.
(Closing) Diana Rodgers, RD 32:25
Thanks so much for joining us on the sustainable dish podcast. If you like the show, please leave us a review on iTunes, and don’t forget to sign up for our newsletter at Sacred Cow dot info. See you next time. Thanks for listening.
