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We care what we put on our dinner plates, right? So, shouldn’t we care about what’s for dessert too?
That’s where my guest, Alec Jaffe, comes in. He is the founder of Alec’s Ice Cream, the first-ever regenerative organic ice cream. Alec partners with Alexandre Family Farm for all of the milk that goes into their product. Alexandre’s is the first certified regenerative dairy farm in the U.S., and their cows are genetically tested to ensure the production of A2 milk.
The sugar used in this premium product is sourced from Native Green Cane Project, another company known for being the first in the regenerative realm by being the first cane sugar to earn the Regenerative Organic Alliance certification.
And you may be thinking, “Well, that sounds great, but does it taste good?” I am here to tell you this is the creamiest, most delicious ice cream I’ve ever tasted!
So grab a pint and listen in as Alec and I chat about:
- Alec’s childhood ice cream adventures
- The benefits of premium ice cream
- Their process for choosing flavors
- Where you can find Alec’s Ice Cream
- Alec’s elevator pitch for regenerative farming
- Why A2 milk?
- The challenges of starting a food business
Resources:
Connect with Alec:
Website: Alec’s Ice Cream
Instagram: @alecsicecream
TikTok: @alecsicecream
LinkedIn: Alec Jaffe
Episode Credits:
Thank you to all who’ve made this show possible. Our hosts are Diana Rodgers and James Connelly. Our producer is Emily Soape. And, of course, we are grateful for our sponsors, Patreon supporters, and listeners.
If you’re ready to take your support for a nutritious, sustainable, and equitable food system to the next level, join my Global Food Justice Alliance community on Patreon. You will have access to ad-free podcasts, exclusive videos, a discussion community, and much more. Go to sustainabledish.com/join to support my work.
Quotes:
“When we look at milk from cattle that are exclusively pasture-fed, we do see really positive health benefits. It is legitimately healthier and worth the extra price to buy premium.” – Diana Rodgers, RD
“If you care about the quality of your milk that you’re drinking or feeding to your kids, shouldn’t you also care about the quality of the dairy that’s being used in your ice cream?” – Alec Jaffe
Transcript:
Diana Rodgers, RD
Welcome to the Sustainable Dish Podcast. I’m Diana Rodgers, a real food registered dietitian, author, and sustainability advocate. I co-host this podcast with James Connelly, who was a producer on my film Sacred Cow. I also founded the Global Food Justice Alliance, an initiative advocating for the inclusion of animal source foods like meat, dairy, and eggs for a more nutritious, sustainable, and equitable worldwide food system. You can check it out and join me at global food justice.org. Thanks again for listening. And now on to our show.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Welcome to the podcast, everyone. Today I’m so excited to have Alec from Alec’s Ice Cream here with me today. And I actually don’t know a ton about your background, I thought we would just kind of have a conversation here. I’d learn a little bit more. I’m a huge fan of… this is the first organic and regenerative ice cream on the market. It’s A2 milk. You guys sent me some I tried it. I absolutely love the taste of it. Just so excited to learn more about your story and share your story with our listeners. So welcome.
Alec Jaffe
Awesome. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. So, you’re out in the Bay Area, and you have this amazing ice cream. That’s pretty much most of what I know. Please share with me a little bit about how you got into all this.
Alec Jaffe
Sure. Yeah. So I started this company, really, because I wanted to create an ice cream that tasted amazing and did some good for the planet. And it’s kind of a combination of a couple of different really formative experiences of my life growing up. I taught myself how to make ice cream in elementary school for a class project. We had to make something at home, bring it into class to present sort of how we made it. And for whatever reason, I mean, I’ve always loved ice cream, maybe that’s why I chose to teach myself how to make ice cream. So I got a little recipe book, a Cuisinart home ice cream maker, and taught myself how to make a custard-style, traditional ice cream.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Oh, that must have been the most popular presentation in the class.
Alec Jaffe
Yes, it was. And people had a lot of fun watching me try to recreate that whole process in the classroom. It was I still remember as a messy, messy presentation. And then, I also grew up around family members who were very involved in sustainable agriculture and really looking at how we can improve our food system. And so we would have family reunions at their dry farm vineyard in the Central Valley in California every year for Thanksgiving. And I would just hear these things that were talked about, like soil health and water levels, water tables, and things like that. And this was like in the year 2000, like no one was, when I was 8-10 years old, no one’s talking about these types of things. People still are really kind of barely talking about these types of things. So it just kind of always stuck with me as something that was very important. And something that we needed to when looking at food be really mindful of that perspective as well. So fast forward to after college, I’m working at a startup – that startup is not doing too well. I’m kind of thinking, Okay, what I want to do with my life, start playing around with some different ideas. And I started just experimenting, making ice cream, and like really intensely, taking notes of every batch that I made comparing different recipes. And just doing that for friends and family and my kitchen at home, passing it or out or passing it out around the neighborhood. And I just started to just fall more and more in love with making something and thought this could be really cool. So that was really kind of how I got started. And I just saw this opportunity to looking in the grocery store like okay, Could this really be a business? You know, there’s a lot of good tasting ice cream out there, like plenty and like even on the – we’re technically what’s called a super premium ice cream, which gets into some technical ice cream to terms as far as like how much cream you’re using.
Alec Jaffe
It is the creamiest ice cream I’ve ever tasted. So I didn’t know that there was a category for super premium.
Alec Jaffe
Oh, yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, they’re so – ice cream, you kind of measure your quality based on how much cream or fat is in the ice cream recipe as a percentage of your recipe, and then also how much air you’re whipping into the ice cream. So if you whip less air, you’re going to have a more premium product. If you work more air, you’re going to have a really light kind of more that fluffy texture. So I was like okay, there’s definitely some cool super premium brands out there. And there’s some brands… kind of no one was really talking about sustainability within the category. You know, there were some plant-based brands that were starting to pop up. But even that was really more digestion-focused. And kind of like more of that general, plant-based sort of we’re better for the planet because it’s a plant-based thing, which I’m sure you’ve talked a lot about on this podcast. And so I was like, okay, you know, these are all fine, but nothing’s really matching what I’m looking for. And actually reading your book was one of the like, early inspirations for like, No, we can do this as a dairy brand and be better for the planet and show why it’s better for the planet. So that got me super inspired to do this. And, yeah, that was really kind of the big inspiration of like, okay, there is nothing in the grocery store that is truly an amazing super-premium dairy ice cream that is also showing how dairy can be better for the planet. And then on top of that, we found a regenerative dairy farm that’s also using A2 dairy. So now it’s better for your stomach as well. And just we’ve had so many people who are self-diagnosed lactose intolerant come up to us and be like, I’ve never been able to eat ice cream. And I can now, and I feel totally fine. I feel great after eating your ice cream. So that’s always a super cool thing as well, that we’re able to bring to the category that also no one else is doing.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I feel like Ben and Jerry’s back in the early early days, kind of had a little bit of that organic energy. Like they were kind of I don’t know that they are now but they were bought out maybe by Dannon or somebody?
Alec Jaffe
They were acquired by Unilever. I think around the year 2000, I think but they were never USDA Organic. They, you know, they did – they would say like made from happy cows kind of thing on their pack. But they were not weren’t certified.
Diana Rodgers, RD
They were not certified happy cows.
Alec Jaffe
They were not certified. Exactly. And so you’re looking at even just you – even just looking at USDA Organic ice cream, there’s not a lot out there. And so it was like, okay, even just sitting like kind of at the base level of sustainability of being USDA Organic. There’s a lot of room for a super premium, delicious, indulgent ice cream. And then if we can push it even further and get into regenerative. It’s like, no one’s doing this. And why? Why is no one doing this?
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. And you know, and I talked in the book, and I’ve talked on my Instagram feed that, you know, they’re really nutritionally when we’re talking about like meat, not massive differences between feedlot finished and regenerative. You know, there’s some cool research coming out about more like flavonoids and stuff like that. But when we look at dairy, we are seeing a big difference. And so people think that I’m just like pro-feedlot beef. And that’s not a question. My position is that the difference is really in the facts. And people aren’t really eating mounds and mounds of tallow. And that’s where you see the difference. Because protein is protein. And yeah, there’s some interesting compounds and stuff like that, that are cool that we don’t know much about what our daily required intake are of flavonoids and things like that. But when we look at milk from cattle that are, you know, exclusively pasture fed, we do see really positive health benefits, like it is legitimately healthier and worth the extra price to buy premium.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, I mean, there’s higher levels of omega threes. CLA’s. Like it says, they’re like real studies show showing this. And so it’s pretty cool. And it’s a really interesting thing, looking at ice cream, any other product that is using animal-based ingredients, or is the product like you know, beef, chicken, eggs, milk, people equate sort of organic and grass-fed and pastured? They’re actively looking for those things because of all the reasons why you’d want to be looking for those things. But in ice cream, it’s really interesting, I think, because it’s an indulgence, a lot of people don’t equate it that it’s also the same type of product as all of those other types of products that you’re buying. This is made from dairy, like dairy is our biggest or most used ingredient. So if you care about the quality of your milk that you’re drinking or feeding to your kids, or your yogurt, or the beef that you’re eating or the chicken that you’re eating or the eggs, shouldn’t you also care about the quality of the dairy that’s being used in your ice cream? Especially if it can make a better tasting ice cream too?
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, so that’s what really blew me away. It was like, oh, you know when I first heard about your company, Like, I don’t really eat that much ice cream, so I’ll give it a try. And then it just blew my mind. Blew my mind. And it’s funny how I have a lot of questions for you about like consumer perceptions and stuff like that. But it is interesting because it’s an indulgence, I try not to keep it at my house too much, right? Because if it’s in my house, that I’m more likely…
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, I don’t blame you.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, although I’m much more likely to go personally like to crush a bag of chips over to really overdo it with ice cream. Like I feel, for me, a small cup is so rich and satisfying. And that’s one of the nice things about eating really good ice cream is that I can eat just these very small Pyrex dishes, you know, little like half cup Pyrex dishes, and you’re good.
Alec Jaffe
Totally. I mean, that’s something that I really felt strongly about, even within how we market the product is – there was some ice cream brand that was doing like a kind of finished the whole pint like or see you at the bottom kind of thing. And, like, I don’t want that. I don’t want people to eat a whole pint of our ice cream in one sitting. And we made it so that, like I want you to have a healthy serving, you know, a normal serving of it – a bowl, whatever that means to you. And feel like alright, I’ve satisfied my craving for an indulgence and I can go on with my day. And that’s something that I feel really strongly about just healthy, mindful eating and like, there is a time for an indulgence that is ice cream, that has sugar, and that’s okay, like your whole life doesn’t need to be optimized. It’s important to have a generally healthy lifestyle, but it’s also okay to indulge every once in a while if you’re doing it in, I guess, the right way.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Mindful way. Yeah, just feel good. If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna do it, just like with Dry Farm Wines. I work with them, you know, and it’s like, regular wine makes me feel terrible. I can drink Dry Farm Wine and feel okay the next day. And it’s because of how it’s produced. It’s low sugar and all these things. So you’re basically the Dry Farm Wine of ice cream.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah. And that the sugar thing is interesting, too. We get a lot of comments of like, so many ice creams on the market now our so almost overwhelmingly sweet. And ours has a very more, I would say more subtle sweetness where it doesn’t have this really just like intense level of sugar and sweetness. So we’re definitely not a low-sugar ice cream. But we are a little less. And I think that comes through and just the taste where it allows the actual flavors to shine through versus just like sugar overload.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. Well, I didn’t, you know, I don’t think that I’ve had any other like conventional ice creams even all summer. And I’m looking to my left here because there is an ice cream place that I can see from my house. And it’s so funny how people, a lot of times they use the word farms. In New England, it’d be like blah, blah, blah, farms ice cream, but it’s like this chemical mix that they get. I don’t even think they’re making the ice cream themselves. Or if they are, they’re just getting commodity milk. And then they’re using this chemical mix, right? And they don’t have to push the ingredients out because they’re sort of like, you know, it’s just takeout ice cream. But then when someone does bring you a pint from there, you’re like, oh, god, look at all this awful stuff and the gums and everything that’s in there. So it just makes sense. If you’re gonna be you know, like, all of the people that listen to me that you know, are careful about what you eat, but hopefully living a balanced lifestyle where you know, a little bit of ice cream if you can tolerate it is acceptable occasionally.
Alec Jaffe
Exactly
Diana Rodgers, RD
Why not have the absolute best ice cream you can.
Alec Jaffe
So I think that’s a good way to look at it. Yeah.
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Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, Let’s talk about how you came up with some of the flavors because and then we’ll talk about like A2 and all that kind of stuff too. Because I think there might be a lot of people that don’t know A2 milk. So my favorite definitely is the Mocha chip one like by far or I’m sorry, the matcha chip. But you know, you’ve got this like blueberry…
Alec Jaffe
Honey blueberry lavender.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. So talk about like, Did you do a lot of consumer research or how did you kind of develop those?
Alec Jaffe
Our flavor process? It’s a little bit of like both qualitative and quantitative. So we really think about what an Alec’s Ice Cream flavor is, and sort of what it looks like, feels like sounds, like tastes like. And for us, that’s really these indulgent kind of classic flavors but putting a unique twist on them that makes it feel uniquely ours and sort of elevates it to another level. I think honey blueberry lavender is a great example of that where honey lavender is a flavor that’s somewhat common now in more like artisanal ice cream shops. It’s definitely like you’ve seen honey lavender, people have seen lavender ice cream or honey lavender ice cream. Adding the blueberry in there just adds kind of a unique tartness from the blueberry that just really balances out the flavor. And…
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah because the honey is a little too intense. I’ve had honey lavender before. And it’s too like weirdly perfumey from the lavender and then too sweet from the honey.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the blueberry just kind of adds a nice balance to that. And so that’s kind of how we think about things. Then, of course, we’re looking at some data looking at what’s doing well in the category, what’s not doing well, what are people interested in buying? Because the thing with us is we’re only selling products to grocery stores. We’re not an ice cream shop. So we can’t do the like, let’s make a flavor, we’ll put it out for the day, see what people think. And if everyone hates it, like, okay, no worries, we’ll just scrap it. For us, it’s a long, almost a year long process to get a flavor from concept out into the market. And we’re putting a big investment into hopefully this flavor is tasty, and people like it. So we do look at some data. And then we start sourcing ingredients, making different test batches, trying different recipes with it. And then as we start to hone in on that, we’ll do these blind taste tests in-house where we don’t have like a taste testing team or like focus groups or anything like that. We just do it with the people at our company. And we’ll take competitive brands and flavors and things like that, and just basically do blind taste tests. And we keep doing it until we feel like we have a flavor that we feel is the best. And so that’s one of my favorite parts of the job.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Of course. What’s the cloud… cow… sorry, the palate cleanser that you use in between?
Alec Jaffe
Honestly, just water.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Just water.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, just water in like 30 seconds or so. And you should be fine. I mean, you could use like saltines or, you know, like unflavored crackers if you want as well, but we just use water, I’m sure the food scientists would maybe have a more exact prescription for what we should be doing.
Diana Rodgers, RD
That’s okay. It’s your company, you get to do what you like.
Alec Jaffe
Exactly. And yeah, so that’s really how we create the flavors. And it’s a really fun process because it’s just, it involves the whole company. And everyone gets to kind of have a say, and I don’t… I like this, I don’t like this. Everyone gets excited when we’re doing taste tests.
Diana Rodgers, RD
How many employees do you have?
Alec Jaffe
We have 10. And I mean, the unique thing about us too, is we are our own manufacturer, too. So like a lot of new brands that are coming out, they work with a co-manufacturer, co-pack. And you’re paying another factory to make the product for you, which is fine. But we take a lot of pride in the fact that we actually make our own products. And it allows us to have that control and have the unique sourcing with regenerative and A2 dairy and regenerative sugar and things that, at our scale, as we’re a new growing business may not even be possible to do with a co-packer or just would be extremely cost prohibitive. And so that’s something that we’re super proud of as well.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, so let’s just run through the flavors that you have so people listening can start drooling.
Alec Jaffe
Perfect. So we have our Tahitian vanilla bean.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Amazing
Alec Jaffe
Mint chocolate chip. Salted caramel latte, chocolate chocolate chip, honey blueberry lavender, and matcha chocolate chip.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah. Awesome.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, we have a new flavor coming out in January. So we’ll have seven and then working on some new ones. Some additional ones as well. So yeah, we should be expanding our lineup of flavors in 2023
Diana Rodgers, RD
Awesome. And where can people find it?
Alec Jaffe
So we’re in stores all over the country. We’re in just over 500 stores now. So we’re mainly in independent natural grocery stores like Fresh Market, Mom’s Organic Market. New Season’s, Met Market, Town and Country, Nugget, Erewhon, Bristol Farms. Yeah, kind of that all the those sorts of types of grocery stores. We have the full store locator on our website too. So you can type in your city or zip code, and you can find a store near you.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And then once the heat dies down a little bit, they can also if it’s not near them, they can just order from your website.
Alec Jaffe
Exactly. Yeah, we also shipped nationwide.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, and I think there’s a link or a code or something people can… we’ll put that in the show notes.
Alec Jaffe
Perfect.
Diana Rodgers, RD
So but let’s talk, I just wanted to focus on the deliciousness. First, because I really just, you know, people are going to try all sorts of things. But like, they have to know that it tastes incredible. And it really does really taste… it is the best ice cream I’ve ever had.
Alec Jaffe
Thank you, I really appreciate that. And it’s important that… it’s an important thing for me. I always say, if ice cream doesn’t taste good, what’s the point? Like, why are we eating ice cream? We can eat something else if it doesn’t taste good. So that’s what as we start to talk about regenerative and A2, why I’m really just proud of our product is we’re able to deliver these additional benefits in ice cream. And there are a lot of companies providing additional benefits in a variety of ways in the category – whether that’s, you know, low calories or low sugar or plant-based or whatever. But often, almost every time, those ice creams take away taste to provide that benefit. And were actually enhancing our taste while providing multiple benefits. And so it’s really exciting for me to just be like, yeah, we’re a better for you ice cream, better for the planet ice cream, but we also taste better too.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Completely. I definitely have tried some of those keto ice creams out there. And disappointing. I don’t… I’ll try it once, and I won’t get it again. Yeah, and it’s the same thing with chocolate. I feel like the fairtrade organic chocolates, you know, the brands that first entered the category, I used to work for Whole Foods, so I know a lot about tasty foods. And I’m always looking for new stuff, even when I shop now. But those early chocolate bars were not delicious. And now they’ve really evolved where it’s like super-premium, ultra-delicious, and fairtrade organic.
Alec Jaffe
Right. And it’s just like, if you’re using the highest quality ingredients, you should be able to make the best tasting food.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, definitely. Okay, so let’s – we could start with regenerative. I mean, most of my folks are familiar with that term. I’m curious how many of your consumers are though? I wanted to ask you about that. Like, what’s your read? I’m always wondering, what’s the read is on the current perceptions of you know, do they understand the word regenerative?
Alec Jaffe
To be honest, it’s not that widely known among consumers. And this is from sort of anecdotal experiences of me sampling the product. Like, we’re the first regenerative, organic ice cream, and they’re like, sounds good. But what is that? And so they’re definitely, it’s still very, very early in the world of regenerative brands. I know, on the agriculture side, there’s been tons of work and, you know, huge movement building to where we are today. But on the brand and consumer side, it’s still extremely early. And so that part is challenging. Where what we found as a challenge is, how do we communicate this in a way where it’s easily understandable for the consumer where they can… because you can spend an hour just talking about regenerative agriculture. You can spend multiple hours talking about just like and go down that rabbit hole. But obviously, a consumer isn’t gonna sit there with you for an hour. So that’s, I think, been a big challenge is like, Okay, how do we effectively communicate this? And then just sort of time as more people talk about it and see it and more brands pop up with products, talking about it, that awareness is just going to keep growing.
Diana Rodgers, RD
So what’s your elevator pitch for? You’re doing a taste test, you know, it’s delicious. It’s going to be, you know, healthier for your gut. And we’ll talk about the A2, but what’s your like quickie for what is regenerative?
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, totally. Well, I kind of it depends on who’s asking me because I can sort of gauge like, what they’re going to care about, how long they’re going to stand there for exactly. But the super elevator pitch is basically – it’s a holistic farming system that uses a variety of practices to actively repair the planet. So we’re going beyond just organic, beyond just sustainability, which I look at as sort of a “Do No Harm” mentality. And we’re looking to actually play offense against climate change and start actively repairing the planet. And what’s really cool about our product is we use cows, which are typically thought of as the worst possible thing for the planet – we use cows to actually be a focal part of that whole system. And working with dairy farmers who Alexander Family Farms are our exclusive dairy suppliers. So we source all of our dairy from them, working with them to create this positive impact on the planet. And then our cane sugar is also certified, regenerative organic working with the first ever certified regenerative organic cane sugar as well. So looking at dairy and cane sugar, two products that are typically thought of as very bad for the planet, working with suppliers and farmers who are doing things the right way to actively repair a planet. That usually gets people. Like they usually leave feeling good about that. Actually like that’s nice. This is awesome.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, and I actually met the farmers from Alexander at a… I was just at this little conference somewhere, many, many, many, many years ago, and just sat down with my lunch plate at their table and started chatting and learned their whole story. So I know them, and they’re lovely people. They’re incredibly committed to doing the right thing. And I didn’t know they were this big… I think I’ve even seen some of their milk on the East Coast.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, they’re selling their products in Whole Foods and a bunch of other grocery stores around the country. So it’s really cool seeing their products take off. And then they’ve been an amazing partner for us. And just, I think that’s also another really cool thing with us – manufacturing versus co-packing is like when you’re co-packing ice cream you’re typically using from their like pool dairy supply that they’re getting from the creamery. That’s just consolidating all the different dairy, where we’re getting dairy delivered directly from them. So we know the farmers that are making our… delivering our dairy. So yeah, it’s very cool.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, so let’s talk about the type of animals that they use and why A2 milk is different than typical milk.
Alec Jaffe
So they use a variety of breeds of cows. And so I guess let’s back up and get into what A2 milk is. A2 is a milk protein is found in all mammals’ milk, so human, goat, sheep milk, cow’s milk. And it basically just has to do with the genetics of the cows or the genetics of the animal where your DNA says you produce this A2 milk protein. A long time ago, some cows started having this mutation, where they started producing an A1 protein instead of the A2 protein. And what has been found out is that this A1 protein digests differently in the human body than the typical A2 protein. And that A1 protein is the cause of a lot of dairy sensitivities. And so many people who are sort of self-diagnosed lactose intolerant have tried A2 milk and been like, Oh, I feel totally fine. So it’s been really cool seeing people sort of become aware of this and try it and be opened up to being able to consume dairy again. So that really is what the sort of background of A2. All cows -there’s sometimes a misconception that, like certain breeds are A2 breeds, and certain breeds are A1 breeds. And that’s not the case. Certain breeds may be more prone to be A2, may have those A2 genetics. So they use a variety of breeds of cow on their farms, and basically, are genetically testing. They’re testing to make sure that they have those at genetics and breeding their cows to have those A2 genetics. That’s basically what they’re doing.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I actually, I just learned something because I was under the impression that it was a certain type of either jersey or Guernsey or I don’t know.
Alec Jaffe
A lot of people say that. Yeah, and they’re more likely to have those at genetics, but it’s not 100% guarantee and where people are like Holsteins have always had A1 genetics, and they’re more likely to produce A1 milk. And so the issue becomes when you’re sourcing dairy from that pool of dairy from the creamers coming from 10-15, whatever local dairy farms, you’re getting this mix of mostly A1, but some A2 is in there as well. And that’s where we find people have trouble is when you don’t know what you’re consuming, and it’s most it’s likely A1 dairy. So it’s definitely A1 dairy. And so, what I’m seeing from like the brand side is a lot of people – people are starting to become aware of A2 because it’s such a visceral thing of like, oh, I either can or can’t consume this. And so I’m seeing more and more people start to become aware of A2. And it’s just I mean, if you can drink milk or eat ice cream and feel great after, that’s pretty exciting for a lot of people.
Diana Rodgers, RD
So definitely, definitely, when I was a kid, I actually couldn’t drink milk because they didn’t know that I was an undiagnosed celiac. And so people who are suffering from gluten intolerance, or celiac disease, your guts are so messed up, dairy in any form is just a bad idea because it makes it worse. And even when you eliminate the gluten, they do recommend you just kind of minimize the dairy for awhile while your guts are kind of sealing back up and repairing. But then typically, you can… you know, I usually advise people to sort of like start with fermented dairy, and then like, ease your way back in. And so I still to this day, don’t drink milk, just because I see no reason to like, just like drink a glass of milk. But ice cream I can handle as long as I don’t do too much. It’s also like a dose thing, too. So as long as I keep it kind of a small amount in the context of a meal, then I seem to do okay.
Alec Jaffe
Right. And everyone’s gonna react somewhat differently to this. So yeah, and also, just speaking abut celiac – all, we’re also gluten-free as well. So all of our products are gluten-free. And we’re looking into that sort of like becoming a certified gluten-free product as well.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Nice. Do you need to be certified in order to say gluten-free on your label?
Alec Jaffe
I don’t think so. I think it’s just a nice level of assurance that we’re taking the steps we’re building in these systems to ensure that, you know, people – anyone can feel good about consuming our ice cream.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, that’s certainly – especially for newly diagnosed people – that’s definitely, you know, they’re very worried about making sure it has to say it on the label. I’m less likely now to care if it says but I don’t eat a lot of things that have labels to begin with. So, right. That’s really great. So how did this all start? I imagined, you know, before I let you go, that there might be some people who have romanticize what it’s like to start a food business, right? And I’ve had many different food businesses on here, I’m looking at a jar of FOND bone broth right now and, you know, talked to her about the process of like, growing from, you know, just kind of starting it out. But so what was that like for you? Like, how many different moves have you had to make over the life of your of your company?
Alec Jaffe
So I had no idea what I was getting into when I started this?
Diana Rodgers, RD
No, most people don’t, I imagine.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah. And I kind of think you sort of just almost can’t know what – if you did know, you probably wouldn’t start it. It’s really hard. It’s extremely hard. It’s extremely competitive, especially in a category like ice cream, where there are very established players with very big budgets, you know, that are owned by Unilever, or Nestle or whatever. And so okay, like we’re really competing against the big players. And we launched – we found the factory that was available as a shutdown ice cream factory available for sale, moved in in January of 2020, right before COVID hits, and the whole world gets turned upside down, launch our… that causes some delays for us launching our business a little bit. And really launching the brand in January of 2021. We launched as an organic, pasture-raised ice cream just in the San Francisco Bay Area. And just a lot of challenges, I mean, learning how to get someone to go into a grocery store and pick your product out of all the other products that are on the shelf. And it was really challenging at a time when you couldn’t do in-store sampling like that’s just really starting to come back. And so we’re more expensive because we’re using better ingredients. We’re a brand that nobody knows. And we went through a package… we ended up going through a packaging change because our first packaging. just it didn’t… it looks beautiful but it didn’t stand out on shelf and so even that learning of like your packaging may look beautiful on its own on the PDF that your branding agency sends you. But what you really need to do is see how does this look on the shelf and does it pop on shelf and does it – when it stops you and grabs your attention does it then actively, like, do a good job of conveying what you’re selling to people in a really short amount of time? And so that was a big learning for me as well. And then just learning how to be that… you really need to be really, really differentiated. And I thought, just even organic, pasture-raised and that were way better taste than everyone else. Like, I thought that would be enough. And even we struggled there. And so then we had – we got super lucky and found the Alexander’s and got it turned on to regenerative agriculture and A2 dairy. And now we have this really unique differentiated product that has packaging that pops on shelf, that communicates what we’re doing. And then I think the biggest thing, too, is like in grocery, it’s expensive. People don’t factor in how, like you need money to compete against all these other companies that have money and that are discounting their product and paying for the promotions and the ads in the store’s weekly catalog and all that stuff. And so realizing all these little costs and things that add up, you just don’t even know to think about them until you’re in it.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, it’s a lot.
Alec Jaffe
It is a lot.
Diana Rodgers, RD
And people forget to when they look at the price, how much of a margin the grocery store gets of your dollar, right?
Alec Jaffe
Totally. I think like, the biggest thing that people don’t realize is when they see a product that’s on on sale in the store, it’s not the grocery store being like, oh, let’s try putting this on sale and see what happens. It’s the brand who is is paying for that promotion to take place. And, you know, if you have great retail partners, sometimes they’ll help you out. And they’ll help bump the price down a little lower than what their typical margin is. And so we’ve been able to find some great retail partners that have helped us out. But at the same time, like if you as a brand are not contributing to that, then your product is just gonna stay at the normal retail price. So even something as simple as that is just something that you don’t really think about.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, well, I’m a huge fan. I’m a convert whenever I have ice cream now. And I encourage folks who think when they go to their local little blah, blah, blah farms to get their ice cream with their kids to just take a look at like what they’re actually putting in that stuff and consider you know, just paying a little bit more, getting some nice, you know, you have the vanilla – nobody can’t not like vanilla.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah. I love our vanilla. I think our vanilla is great.
Diana Rodgers, RD
It’s really good vanilla.
Alec Jaffe
Thank you. Yeah, it pairs great – we got you know, going into fall any kind of like pies or baked desserts, pairs amazingly with it, so…
Diana Rodgers, RD
Yeah, I didn’t even get much of it because my kids stole it. Well, thank you so much for your time. It’s really cool learning about how you started this. And I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope you get… I hope to get in with Whole Foods soon. I’m sure that’s the dream of yours. I know it’s hard to get placement with them.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, yeah. Fingers-crossed. Hopefully, we got some exciting news for that. So hopefully we’ll see.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Okay, yeah. So where can people find you? I mean, like online.
Alec Jaffe
Yeah, yeah. Go to our website, alecsicecream.com. That’s A-L-E-C-S ice cream.com. You can also find us on Instagram or TikTok @alecsicecream. And if you want to find a store near you, we have the store locator on our website. And we also ship nationwide direct-to-consumer as well.
Diana Rodgers, RD
Awesome. Great. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It was really fun to learn about it. And again, wish you the best of luck.
Alec Jaffe
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Diana Rodgers, RD
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